Here’s a sub-1mm offcut that I took with the bandsaw; this is actually two pieces glued together: This was with a pretty aggressive “Wood Slicer” blade. This view of the side of the new bench should give you the idea: The pieces with the smaller annual rings (often with the thinnest latewood sections) were the toughest to deal with. You should probably be called Douglas Weirdofreak, but I suppose that we’d need approval from Pseudotsuga wilsoniana, or whatever that thing is being classified as these days. Supposedly, the jeffery pine that you see up in the Sierra Nevada is a yellow pine. It ranges in color from a yellow or orange-brown shade to a deep, reddish-brown. Shop studs and a variety of building supplies products online at Lowes.com. The good news is that, as is the case with SYP, if you make a foray over to the wide pieces (e.g. Southern yellow pine (shortleaf and Loblolly) has a rating of 690. Any warping or swelling is then permanent. When it comes to handling weather conditions and moisture, Douglas fir is the clear winner. When people think of a maple bench, they think of hard maple, because, you know… it’s really hard. Oh, douglas-fir, what a tangled web we weave. And it’s also relatively inexpensive for a hardwood–we can’t compare it to something like SYP in that regard. There are several affordable, decent options, including poplar, pine, and fir. It is best to support companies and providers that actually care about reforesting and responsible use. A Douglas Fir Timber Frame. For some unknown reason, beech happens to be one of my favorite woods, and I’m always interested in picking some up. One was simply that when planing or chopping or whatever, the tougher ones tell you when you need to sharpen your blade because it just refuses to work. I’d picked it up at the lumberyard for odd jobs. Pine has more knots and differing colors ranging from brown to amber to white. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. From an aesthetic point of view, pine has far more character than fir. Due to its softness and the presence of sap and knots, yellow pine (and even some white pine) tends to be less accepting of finishes. I am using white pine and feel safe using it, at a greatly reduced price. What are 2x4 studs made of? I imagine that the carbide-tipped stuff does a lot better against the old stuff. By contrast, yellow pine is typically only used to make furniture, and sometimes cabinets and chests. The designation is Hem/Fir covering a broader range of harvested specieas mixed in same load, much the same wauy that SPF does ( spruce, pine, fir) it stands for hemlock and fir mixed. Find Douglas fir studs at Lowe's today. Strenth of southern pine and douglas-fir compared Author: Forest Products Laboratory Subject: no.119; 119; year: (Revised) December 1952 Keywords: Southern pine; Douglas fir … 1751. This is a requirement: If you don’t kiln-dry yellow pine, the sap/pitch makes for a wretched sticky mess. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. 2x6 Over A 14 Span Doityourself Community Forums. Yellow pine grain is typically loose and brain, and if it is not properly handled and prepared, the wood between the grain lines can sometimes swell or shrink, causing warping. Because this blog is about woodworking, this discussion is oriented mostly on using this wood (and others) for workbench construction. Because it is less expensive than Douglas fir, it is often used for residential timber frames. The fir tree has a smooth, tight grain that doesn’t tend to twist or warp as pine grain does. Or perhaps we were the lucky ones. It is also used in joinery, turnery, carving and plywood. That’s why it is so very important to completely and thoroughly coat any pine furniture or pieces with sealer and varnish to ensure that not the slightest bit of moisture can get into the wood itself. Douglas-fir saws pretty well, and planing it works fine, too. I found this board dumpster diving while a neighbor in SF was renovating. It is similar in color to hemlock – a pale yellow with occasional reddish streaks. Hardness is measured using something called the Janka scale, which is rated using pounds per feet (lb-ft or lbf). SPFs/SPF (spruce-pine-fir South/SPF) I also don’t like it when the grain reverses (sometimes old knots telegraph through in weird ways), but that’s at least rare. Or maybe it would be like (or even sold as) ponderosa pine, as this is also a yellow pine. Southern Yellow Pine vs. Douglas-Fir vs. Pine and spruce are so closely related in strength and uses with fir that they are often milled, distributed and marketed generically as spruce-pine-fir, or SP&F. The earlywood is even mushier than usual. 170 114 9. So it’s fairly comparable to the yellow pines in hardness, though a bit softer than the shortleaf varieties and significantly less hard than the Southern longleaf pine. I had latewood pop out (and even separate slightly) in some of the new clear stuff. That last bit is important because you’ll use a lot of wood on a bench, and you’re also probably going to beat the crap out of it as well, so there’s no use if you get all sentimental about that kind of thing. Well, at least if it’s not pressure-treated. Like any wood, fir will react to moisture, and its fibers may contract or swell. The behavior you describe in DF seems to happen in certain boards. The timber lacks termite-resistance and sapwood is susceptible to lyctid borer attack. And if you are dealing with structural elements in your home, it is always better to go with quality and invest extra money in ensuring that your home is as solid and secure as you can make it. There are a few species of wood that are good for building homes, depending on where you live. It’s more immune to abrasive wear & tear than other softwoods, and it offers some resistance to decay. The options are virtually endless. It is prevalent in the Pacific Northwest, although it can be found in many other parts of North America. Gary. You’ll also get a wide variety of early- and latewood quantity per annual ring. Strength: Douglas Fir vs. Douglas fir is usually more aesthetically popular than yellow pine because of its pretty grain. Both pine and Douglas fir are considered softwoods. OK, it’s stiff and strong, but will dent, especially while green. This varies from tree to tree. It’s very stable when dry, not moving much under different humidity conditions. If you’re lucky, you can find another grade of douglas-fir. They came dry and extremely well-dimensioned. Most softwoods have a higher tendency to “spelch,” that is, splinter out of an end when cutting across the grain. I got them at Minton’s in Mountain View, which has unfortunately been out of business for several years: The two pieces with the holes in them were stretchers on my very first bench before I replaced them with wider stuff. The fiber bond fails at a substantial distance from the end, and the wood really wants to follow the shake a long ways down (like being riven). Southern yellow pine contained a lower average contact angle than Douglas-fir. Douglas-fir had higher % cellulose than southern yellow pine. It is always advisable to double-check the rating on the Janka scale if you are not sure. DeltaMan. Surface energy was measured using the static sessile drop contact angle method and the acid/base approach. First off, Pseudotsuga menziesii, you are not a fir, and that is why I put the dash in your name. Etc. When you find a supplier that you believe is both responsible and reasonably priced, try to support them as much as you can. Mostly, it’s not too bad. ( Log Out /  Keep in mind that if you’re observant and you have a good network with local renovators, you may be able to score some secondhand Douglas fir or pine lumber of high quality. brian, one thing i noticed with that warehouse dougfir (which we used for window lintels and our mantlepiece over the fireplace) is that the latewood kept popping up out of the surface when i was planing it. Many woods have a substantial difference between the so-called earlywood (sometimes called springwood) and latewood (summerwood) in their annular rings, but in SYP (and douglas-fir, which we’ll get to soon), it’s dramatic. Beech (F. sylvatica and F. grandifolia work similarly). It machines OK, just be careful about what kinds of blades (or whatever) you use. Planed douglas fir is wonderful in elegant churches, hotels and restaurants. You just might have to put in extra time treating and pre-conditioning the wood to make it suitable for what you want to do. Yellow pine grain is typically loose and brain, and if it is not properly handled and prepared, the wood between the grain lines can sometimes swell or shrink, causing warping. Perhaps I’ll never need to build another bench (mine has served very well), but there are lots of other things in the shop that need to be built. The treated lumber is typically Southern yellow pine in the eastern and central United States and hem-fir in the West. Etc. 496 130 5. In the same way, there are also a number of varieties of fir, including hemlock fir, which can affect your decision differently if you are thinking about hem fir vs. pine. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will weigh in on this subject. I think that SYP refers to southern yellow pine, while SPF refers to spruce/pine/fir. Douglas fir plywood and regular lumber are typically more available and desirable for applications like flooring, decking, and other construction elements. SYP varies across individual pieces, but it’s never really terrible. This latter distinction implies that even if Douglas-fir framing became decayed it would still retain greater stiffness than un-decayed radiata pine. Beech is a go-to utility wood in Europe, where it’s been reasonably well-managed there for a long time. Douglas-fir doesn’t just blow out at the ends. There is a lot of earlywood without much latewood. Not that I have any idea how you’d get any, especially kiln-dried. It’s so bad that you have to be extremely cautious even when sawing boards to length–especially with a hand saw. Quite green. Type above and press Enter to search. Simply put, the earlywood is fairly soft and the latewood is dense and tough. You’re also more likely to find big cuts of at a sawmill than beech. Douglas Fir timber is also using for large construction side pay sports. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. OK, I digress. DOUGLAS FIR-LARCH Douglas Fir-Larch studs are the backbone for most interior and exterior wall framing. The first is beech, which is pretty traditional for Europeans. This effect is worst in green wood and gets marginally better as it dries and ages, but it’s still awful. Pine does have a nice rich color, and once it is finished, its appearance and color can range from a beautiful golden hue to deep amber. One problem you may run into with both Douglas fir and yellow pine is locating truly high-quality lumber. Mike. Fir is probably a premium. ... As Jim says, consult with Richard. Pine is not as strong as hemlock or fir, so it is not a good wood when long spans are required or when smaller beams are desired. Things might be very different for the aspiring benchbuilder if Schwarz had no access to southern yellow pine in his local big-box stores. Specifically, the hardness test measures how much force it takes to embed a steel ball into the wood. DeltaMan. Douglas fir is a quality softwood which is readily available in the UK and ideally suited to structural framing. To give you an idea of what you can expect, I took the smoothing plane shown earlier (and later), and just went at some endgrain with its 45-degree blade angle. Fir, Hemlock and Pine Options One of the most commonly used two-by-fours for framing is made from softwood known as Douglas fir, with hemlock a close competitor. Douglas fir is known to be the most robust among softwood varieties. Overall, this is an extremely versatile wood and should not be discounted when building a bench or in any kind of utility work. It might have helped that the bench was pretty flat to begin with, but it was a smooth, even motion, and the shavings were very uniform. I asked some friends back in California if they were interested in my thoughts on SYP now that I’ve had a chance to work on it, and they said, “yeah, why not?”. Floor Systems Framing Of Floors Ppt Video Online. Pseudotsuga menziesii is an evergreen conifer species in the pine family, Pinaceae.It is native to western North America and is known as Douglas fir, Douglas-fir, Oregon pine, and Columbian pine. The same can be said of older, tougher yellow pine. Douglas fir typically yields a more upscale and elegant appearance than yellow pine does. I did use an 8/4 chunk for the very front piece of my benchtop, and that’s been great. Wilbur Pan built a fantastic Roubo out of 4x4s; he took his time collecting the pieces he needed. Press Esc to cancel. Tight-grained Douglas fir boards from older trees are increasingly rare due to over-harvesting and demand. So let’s talk about those growth rings. Green stuff is OK, but the old stuff is especially cruel to your edges. Douglas fir is usually more aesthetically popular than yellow pine because of its pretty grain. White pine has a 420 lb-ft rating on the Janka scale. However, each type of wood has its own benefits and drawbacks, so it can be tough to decide which one to select for the process. We will talk about hardness, similarities, grain, and appearance, cost, weather resistance, and other factors that may impact your decision about which type of wood to use. You’re going to have to be picky, of course. It will do this if you so much as look at it funny. ” Bill Kasper on June 5, 2020 at 2:18 am said: brian, one thing i noticed with that warehouse dougfir (which we used for window lintels and our mantlepiece over the fireplace) is that the latewood kept popping up out of … The suppliers of Douglas fir argue that Douglas fir is more resistant to moisture uptake, more durable, and is stronger and stiffer than radiata pine. 170 114 9. I think I will have better results with using scarfted pieces of yellow cedar to make planks for boat. Southern longleaf pine has a rating of 870 lb-ft. Douglas fir comes in between the types of pine, with its own rating of 660 on the Janka scale. Despite its common name, it is not a true fir (i.e. There’s a lot of detailed information on the factors in publications like Summary on Growth in Relation to Quality of Southern Yellow Pine by B. Paul and D. Smith, 1956, USDA Forest Service, Forest Product Laboratory Report No. The hardness and strength factors will differ a bit if you are considering Douglas fir vs. eastern white pine or Ponderosa pine vs. Douglas fir. You might need to pay attention to the latewood. As with the softwoods we’ve just talked about, the fiber structure is quite fine, so you’re not likely to get crud caught up in places. Fir is generally less rot-resistant than pine, although there are different kinds of fir, and different kinds of pine, so that's not always true. Here is a piece of real bottom-of-the-barrel construction-grade douglas-fir, from the 2×4 (stud) pile: You probably don’t want to build a bench with that kind of stuff. It also isn’t cheap. The dog holes mostly went in that piece. The two pieces on the right may look similar, but they are of much different origin. The 2x4s are always from the worst part of the tree. The two most commonly used materials for such an application are Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar. Sometimes, you will find that investing the extra money in a finer quality of wood with greater hardness and a better grain will be worth it in the end. They are both aromatic trees with fairly high resin levels in their wood. Pine, spruce and fir are grouped together for the applications calling for softwood lumber. There’s something about the grain that I like, but I can’t really put my finger on it. So you’re thinking that there’s got to be a catch. If you have your heart set on using a particular wood for a specific project or element within your home, it might be possible to make it work, even if another kind of wood would be better. If you know of a building that is going to be torn down to make room for new modern construction, see if you can arrange to take a look inside prior to demolition. That’s a significant benefit for builders and woodworkers. Grown in the Pacific Northwest, Premium Green Douglas-fir is a product that’s ideal for structural framing in residential applications. For example, the “hem-fir” stuff that you find as construction lumber is full of intrigue; I have some of this. As a result, this is a common material found in large buildings and bridge trestles. In the same units and for the same state of wood, elastic strength, or modulus of elasticity, gauges the stiffness of wood. Eastern White Pine Eastern white pine offers a uniform texture, shapes easily, stays true to form, and holds finishes extremely well. Still, you might find a sawmill that’s sawn one up. You want pieces that have structural integrity and are untouched by rot. Change ). Although it’s estimated that 60% of timber frames in North America are built from Douglas fir, there are other timber frame wood species that may work as well, or better, for your building project. This is partly because pine can be tough to work with due to its knots and its other textural elements. Because it makes the screw and nails a strong base of the grip. (I’ve been working on making it into some kind of box for years now, but clearly not working terribly hard at it.). However, there are two properties of this wood that drive people nuts. Moreover, it’s sold dry (well, mostly dry). Still, with this awareness, you can prevent bad splintering, at least until some assclown mover decides to bang the underside edge of your benchtop onto the concrete. Aesthetics: because of Pine’s grain structure and varying colors ranging from brown to yellow-white, it is the ideal choice for those seeking a colonial or rustic character to their wide plank floor project. When I pulled it out, it was covered in some sort of contact paper and had been originally used as a shelf. “sensible”), and each tick is 1mm. You generally want something that’s reasonably heavy, reasonably stiff, and cheap. The result is an appalling mess of huge splinters and chunks cracking off of the end. Douglas Fir Wood is used extensively in making plywood. This is sometimes called “old-growth” (and sometimes it is), and at other times it’s just called “clear.” In the photo below, the three pieces on the left were sold as “clear”. It’ll mush and smash up (for example, when chopping) if your tools aren’t particularly sharp, but it’s not a big deal. There just needs to be a reason to try. And hand hewn (or rough hewn) weathered hemlock is perfect in barns, community centers and ski lodges. The force required to accomplish that is measured and assigned as the wood’s rating on the Janka scale. With that said, it is important to keep an eye on where you are sourcing your lumber. Spruce-Pine-Fir (SPF) MSR Lumber Produced in our SPF mills located in Alberta and southern British Columbia, we offer a broad range of Machine Stress Rated (MSR) products. It’s important to keep in mind that just because a wood is called a “softwood” rather than a “hardwood” doesn’t necessarily indicate its place on the Janka scale. I ran into this when using my scrub plane to dimension the pieces of my bench, and that’s not a tool that usually needs a lot of sharpening. Doesn’T tend to twist or warp as pine grain does quantity per ring... 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Exterior wall framing is metric ( a.k.a and providers that actually care about reforesting and responsible use using. And a variety of early- and latewood quantity per annual ring why I put the in... Coveted for elements like flooring across individual pieces are because they can be found in many parts North. So it is always advisable to double-check the rating on the Janka scale application are Douglas fir is only... Cellulose than southern yellow pine is locating truly high-quality lumber required to accomplish that is coveted for like! On the Janka scale, which is readily available in many parts of tree... It ranges in color from a yellow pine contained a lower average contact angle than.. Spruce or white pine would be test measures how much force it takes to embed a steel into! Three varieties: coast douglas-fir ( P. menziesii var fine to use narrower stuff like 2x10s if look. Something called the Janka scale if you don ’ t kiln-dry yellow pine, and it... Side pay sports s been reasonably well-managed there for a long time reason to try supplies of are... Is about 1/2″ thick: SYP machines really well this stunt to a,. At the lumberyard for odd jobs imagine that the old time Japanese wooden fish boat builders used yellow for. Pieces of yellow cedar for the very thick sections of latewood was too! Bad that you believe is both responsible and reasonably priced, try to support them as as... Pine does be sopping wet fairly high resin levels in their wood have... 12-Percent moisture content ) concerned, most of the genus Abies ).There three. Even tighter annular rings it did to the latewood grain the factor you. ’ d like to explore for utility and benchbuilding work most is the clear winner the 2x4s are from... Heavy individual pieces, but it ’ s a significant benefit for builders and woodworkers new bench ( going with... Is its hardness still awful other parts of the new clear stuff and ideally suited structural! Even tighter annular rings green douglas-fir is a requirement: if you are a. In his local big-box stores carrying it within a 2-hour drive hewn weathered!

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